An Open Letter To Niagara, Ontario Regional Councillors
From Neil Switzer, Chairman of the West Lincoln Glanbrook Wind Action Group
Honourable Chairman and Councillors
Before Niagara officially brands itself as the “Green Capital of Canada” Regional Council should ask itself “Would Kitchener/Waterloo today initiate their “Tech Triangle” branding with RIM’s current state of financial affairs?” 
Likely not without looking rather stupid or totally out of touch so why then would the Niagara Region want to hitch their reputation to an industry with an even worse financial outlook?
If you think RIM is in bad financial straights check out Vestas Wind Systems, the world’s largest wind turbine manufacturer and proposed supplier to the West Lincoln and Wainfleet wind projects.
As of Wednesday July 25, 2012 RIM stocks have lost 72.49% of their value in the last year while Vestas shares have plummeted even more at 79.94%. In total Vesta shares are down over 92% in the last nine years. At least RIM has some $2 billion in the bank while Vestas has accumulated a debt load of over 2 billion euros. On July 1, 2012 the Royal Bank of Scotland and HSBC issued an ultimatum to Vestas to prepare a comprehensive financial restructuring plan and talks of a sale or sell-off of assets are rumoured.
Personally I believe Niagara has a justifiable basis to be recognized for it’s true green energy contributions (hydro generating plants) but unfortunately the poster child of “green energy” is most often seen as a wind turbine and this industry globally is in rapid decline and branding ourselves to this dubious controversial sector is doomed to failure and only make the Region look naïve, gullible or even stupid..
Enough of the rhetoric and make believe of green deceivers. Ask yourself if this is a prudent political move in light of the current global trend away from wind/solar energy or better still ask the Greater Niagara Chamber of Commerce spin doctors how long they predict Ontario’s artificial green bubble can last in light of the American Wind Energy Association’s recent prediction that 10,000 US wind turbine manufacturing jobs will be lost in 2012 and another 37,000 in 2013?
Perhaps another motion to defer would be in order until the “green energy” controversy is resolved.
Respectfully submitted
Neil Switzer – Chairman, WLGWAG
(Niagara At Large has posted this open letter from Neil Switzer for our readers’ information and we invite you to share your views on the contents of the letter below, remembering that NAL only posts comments by individuals who also share their first and last names and do not engage in over-the-top, personal attacks against others.)
Niagara At Large 
Thank you, Mr. Switzer for mentioning the American Wind Energy Association. I went to their website and found a wealth of information about windfarms and how they deliver clean energy to millions in the States. However, I did not find that the jobs in the industry would be greatly reduced. Perhaps you can cite your reference? Also, comparing the collapse of RIM is a very clever false analogy worthy of a true partisan. Personally, I cannot understand your stance against wind energy, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, please use your critical thinking skills (if you have them) to present your argument. Otherwise, you sound like an angry NIMBY.
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Sharon I would direct you to the post I made with regards to wind power . Which I might add I am not against for I do think it has a place in the energy mix but in the right context! My post was under the title” Letters to the Editor worth another read”. —Take Care —John
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Sharon, where are the critical thinking skills? The AWEA and Canwea are not the place to go to find subjective information about wind energy. Like going to the London Bank to find subjective information about LIBOR rate setting. Puleeeze. All the wind energy used world wide averages out to zero percent when rounded to the closest whole number. All for nothing.
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I just wish someone would come out with the TRUTH about wind turbines. I think they are a great source of renewable, clean energy but I honestly don’t know much about them and the validity of the pro and con claims. I would have some questions about the presence of the electrical field surrounding them as with power lines but truthfully have no clue. As for appearances, I don’t think they’re ugly at all, in fact, rather graceful, and if they are harmless wouldn’t care if one was installed in my line of sight. I personally see no reason that they would depreciate property values except if someone finds their appearance offensive or is fed propaganda about health hazards. Similarly, some cities have dumb rules about hanging out laundry for cosmetic reasons but I see no harm in that either especially as opposed to using a dryer in the middle of summer…so much for conservation.
We have ample winds off the Great Lakes and turbines could be placed off shore. There are many along Lakes Erie and Huron already. If the technology is so dangerous and uneconomical, why is it used so extensively in Europe where the countries often seem to be ahead of us as far as innovation? Canadians seem to feel we have these big, wide open spaces with no need to protect our environment whereas Europeans know otherwise.
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Perhaps Linda, we can move one of the 15000 abandoned wind turbines in the USA in your back yard. There is not a place in the world that wind farms work. For example Texas. 25 billion spent, and as much on transmission lines upgrades to bring power from rural to urban, a total failure. Ontario has spent 1.5 billion in the last three years to get rid or wind power produced at the wrong times. Another reason manufacturing is running to the exit in Ontario.
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I agree with Sharon Bowers. So sad that there’s such opposition to alternate energy in this country. Unfortunately, Harper, the petro lobby et al. are suppressing alternate energy. We’ve already lost our manufacturing base, and now we’re losing any advantages we might have by embracing alternate energy.
A turbine factory coming to Niagara is owned by a Chinese firm … and so it goes. And in case someone asks why I don’t have a turbine in my backyard. the answer is this: I live in a townhouse and there isn’t room, but if I had land, I’d be proud to have one. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford a hybrid car, and it’s fantastic, as is the technology that it uses. Turbines have been studied ad nauseum, and there is no medical evidence indicating that they induce negative health effects. There’s plenty of medical evidence showing harmful effects of coal burning etc. I’m sure the Harper cons will find something though … maybe their studies will show that if you follow the arc of the blades into the sun, you could suffer eye damage. I say all of this with no prejudice and no intent to harm anyone’s feelings.
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To: Neil Switzer, Chairman of the West Lincoln Glanbrook Wind Action Group and others in his group:
PUT A SOCK IN IT!!!
I am getting sick and tired of all their disinformation and tripe — it is pure and simply NIMBYism, trying to cloak itself in pseudo-scientific claptrap!
We cannot continue with our current dependence on non-renewable energy – it puts too much power in the hands of those who want to destroy our way of life!
Granted, there are some negatives to wind power and solar power – but they are still good sources of power that DO NOT POLLUTE.
Perhaps Mr Switzer and some members of his group should visit western Canada and the United States where there are huge wind farms. I have! They are extremely fascinating – and quiet.
As I have said here on Niagara-At-Large in the past, perhaps we should keep them at least 750 or 1000 metres from the nearest home.
But we should be building them – NOW!!
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Interesting…”Put a sock in it???”
There is over 3 billion worth of litigation in Ontario now as a direct result of improper planning and environmental extremism. Build them NOW you say for what? Someone says wind turbines look graceful. Maybe on a brochure but get up and close with one. it is like a hollywood star in the supermarket without makeup. Darn ugly and noisy. Is it worth the province to spend 75 billion over 20 years for line upgrades and turbines for 1 percent of power required that needs conventional backup.
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I have been up close & personal with them! And I think they are great. I am not a “tree-hugger” in the usual sense, but when it comes to electrical generation, my first choice is hydro, second/third wind/solar. I oppose using non-renewable fossil fuels for electrical generation – whether it is coal, oil or natural gas.
As for the $3B worth of litigation – how much of that is from NIMBYs, with the backing of the fossil fuel folks.
The system established by the Ontario government is stupid – paying far too much to those who install wind generation equipment – but then charging exhorbitant fees to tie in to the grid. But that is a separate issue. The fact is that wind power generators are quiet, and non-polluting.
As for “put a sock in it” … would you prefer I told him to shut the f… up?
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Really? I too would like a grid running completely on renewables. Doesn’t mean it can happen with today’s technology. The grid can not function without natural gas fired generators. Wind jerking would stress the system if we were to rely on it. Doesn’t mean we need to shoe horn them in 500 meters from peoples homes. Blades the span of a 747 jet spinning in your back yard at tip speeds of 250 miles per hours at times for the next 20 years. That’s what this is about. The whole dirty connection between OPG, wind companies, and the likes of Mike Crawley subverting and perverting legeslation to push a useless and corrupt wind adgenda by dismantling the checks and balances that tend to safeguard our society. As for Mr Switzer, he can only be commended to speak up for a abused minority in rural Ontario.
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Thanks Doug for the posting which generated some interesting discussion on this most serious issue. Unfortunately you failed to attach my letter’s links which substanciate my statements with credible and reputable sources.
To Sharon I’d say please check out these links and learn to dig a little deeper than just checking AWEA’s official sales and marketing site. As you’ll see my number’s come direct from a quote by Vic Abate, vice president of General Electric’s (GE) renewable energy business who undoubtedly should know as GE is America’s largest wind energy company. In the attached Bloomberg Businessweek article he goes on to say that he expects that many makers of gearboxes, towers, and blades for wind turbines will go under next year.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-06-07/ge-readies-for-waning-wind-power .
As for the market comparisons of RIM and Vestas check out for youself Bloomberg’s website for the daily or historic track record of these companies which shows RIM has a better chance of surving than Vestas. The story of the bank’s utilmatum to Vestas comes from the Sunday Times in the UK and can seen at: http://www.windaction.org/news/35356 .
Unfortunately, all five responses appear to be based on beliefs reinforced by wind industry marketing and not real science or independent studies. For anyone with an open mind you may want to check out my presentation to the Region’s Integrated Community Planning Committee meeting of June 6, 2012 which is also refernced with credible sources including the Provincial Auditor General who reported that Ontario has committed billions of dollars to renewable energy without even conducting any substanciating business-case analysis.
Click to access ICP%20Neil%20Switzer%20Presentation%20ICPC%20June%206,%202012.pdf
It amazes me that any Niagara politician or resident could support the Province’s exhorbidently expensive and rigged green energy scam which forces Ontario consumers to purchase every single Kw of renewable energy that they can produce. The impact of this is that during frequent periods of surplus generating output the Province dictates that Niagara’s hydo plants.must spill or bypass water to make room for the fixed-price solar/wind producers which tragically squanders Niagara’s real and inexpensive green energy hydro capacity.
As a professional environmental planner and environmentalist who has lived in an energy efficient solar home for over thirty years it saddens me that the future of renewables has been hijacked by major corporate interests who in the end will end up setting back the environmental movement by decades. I truely wish it wasn’t so.
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The Harper cons give subsidies of $1.4 billion dollars a year to the richest companies in the world: the oil and gas cos. These tax dollars should go directly into subsidies for alternate energy development, which is the way of the energy future for most of the developed world. It is extraordinarily important for Canada to redirect our tax dollars away from carbon sources for countless science-based and economic reasons. Unfortunately, the petroleum industry lobby, now dominated by China, has basically captured the Harper cons and much of their legislation, especially environmental legislation (i.e omnibus bill C-38). It is somewhat ironic that China sees value in alternate energy projects in Canada, thus their projected investment/ownership of a turbine plant in Niagara. In fact, China is cornering the market in alternate energy development as well, to their advantage, and our detriment. The major corporate interests ruining this country, and giving us corporate totalitarianism in return, include China and the petroleum companies.
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Germany has chosen the correct path: 26% of their electricity for the first half of 2012 was from renewable energy. This means that their technological expertise in renewables will continue to grow and expand, which means their productivity will grow and expand, as will their economy.
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As I understand Mark in Germany they still have coal and are building new coal . I should quickly point out I do not want coal having worked in Nanticoke. But in the case of Germany they have adhered to coal ( although much cleaner than Nanticoke) because of the flexability, it allows them to incorporate a greater % of alternative sources. I know you know of the inflexable system that we have in Ontario .Hence the need for Expensive and polluting gas fired CO-GENS. Also because of our inherant inflexable system the need to spend vast amounts of tax dollars on subsidizing the sale of power produced by these wind turbines when our jurisdiction cannot use the excess power! AS I stated in previous posts wind power should not have been hooked up to the grid but operated independant of it and the power generated used to create clean Hydrogen Gas . It could be stored and transfered to be used at a later and more needed time. Plus we could have avoided the extra costs of CO-GENS and subsidies!
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This sounds like a page from wind industry survival hand book. The reality is electricity values from the wind industry are always peak values and the actual is much much lower. Like Scotland is almost 100 percent green but shhhhh. Don’t tell anyone we buy electricity from Germany’s worlds largest coal plant.
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Please put one in my backyard if it reduces pollution. I’m SO sick of all the perpetual subsidies and misinformation re the oil/coal industries. Canada’s government has become a puppet to big US industry. Too bad we share such close proximity to be so influenced or, should I say, coerced. American citizens are also victimized by the propaganda. The sun and wind are free and non polluting. Sorry but I don’t see the problem. I remember seeing my first wind turbine in a British movie years ago and was fascinated with them. They struck me as graceful.
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I agree with Linda. We have so much land, (as does Australia) that we could do so many interesting , innovative things with alternative sources (wind, solar, geo-thermal, and so on). Spain has developed huge and innovative solar capacity. (Ironic that the U.S goes to Spain for train expertise … another topic) but that’s the way North America is heading because we’re so far behind. In Canada, we don’t want “state ownership” of our industries,unless of course it’s FOREIGN state ownership (i.e China).
meantime, our corporate bosses are hugely SOCIALIZED ; remember the bailouts?? (Yet another topic I’m afraid). It all leads to who is running the country, and for energy,it happens to be the petro lobby, and they don’t like alternate energy.
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The Petro lobby is supporting the wind farms in Ontario. Suncor, Enbridge ect ect. They take advantage of hyperdepreciation of the asset. Do your homework. People don’t want a wind turbine 500 meters from their home. They do not reduce green house emmisions.
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So far behind Spain?? Is this the Spain downgraded to junkbond status and has clawed back subsidy to wind industry. Ontario is fresh meat to the wind sharks.
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The bottom-line in my opinion is this: the people that will be in close proximity to these monstrous wind turbines don’t want it. We live in a democratic society which should extend to the municipality. COMRADE McGuinty is shoving this project down the throats of those that will be adversely affected (possible health, quality of life, value of property) with no respect of their rights as landowners, taxpayers and citizens of this region.
To you townhouse dwellers, I suggest the following: if you feel so strongly that this is a good thing, then I suggest you buy the homes that will undoubtably lose much of their value for their CURRENT market value. Otherwise, come up with some ideas on how to increase our renewable energy production that DO NOT adversely affect ANY segment of our population. Putting these monstrosities off shore is one that COMRADE McGuinty has nixed. I am sure there are others.
I applaud those that are standing up for their rights. It’s their property, its their community, they pay taxes, it’s their life and its their future. The thought that someone from another region/province can arbitrarily dictate what happens at a regional/municipal level is in my opinion everything that is wrong with this province and the rules that have been shoved down our throats. Just sayin….
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We live right on the edge of the Niagara Escarpment — on an acre of land.
We would absolutely love to install a turbine — but with the way the McGuinty government has set things up, it is exhorbitantly expensive!
Sure, they will pay us 50-something cents per kwh … and then sell it back to us at about 5 or 6 cents per kwh. There should be a premium — but not that much! Perhaps a premium of 5 cents per kwh.
The problem is that once they pay you the 50 cents per kwh … you have to pay an $800 per year fee to feed into the grid. AND your property assessment goes up drastically.
A farmer not far from us installed a wind generator for his diary barns, When all was said and done, he was forced to remove the system!!! His taxes had more than doubled!!! He could no longer afford to operate his farm. The tax increases more than wiped out the savings he would make.
So don’t tell me “To you townhouse dwellers, I suggest the following: if you feel so strongly that this is a good thing, then I suggest you buy the homes that will undoubtably lose much of their value for their CURRENT market value”
We don’t live in a townhouse … we live in a rural area … and we want alternate energy — without being penalized for using it.
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I agree. Cut the subsidies to oil and gas, and let them sell on the open market and be subject to market forces like everybody else is. If consumers begin to find it too expensive to put gas in their cars, it may well be time to turn in the keys and demand better alternative fuel sources and a combination of other transportation methods. It is interesting how corporate interests are subsidized, while those of us in small business have to rely entirely on market forces to make it or not.
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Wind turbine technology is increasing by leaps and bounds in developed world countries, which is why one advanced turbine can replace numerous “old tech” ones… but totalitarian Canada is too servile to the petro industry, so we’ve basically lost the battle already. Foreign countries are capitalizing on our backwardness. Unfortunately, Herr Harper is bringing us back to the Dark Ages in science by worshipping false idols (petro lobby) rather than real science (i.e Jim Hansen, Experimental Lakes Area and so on). Huge swaths of North America prefer FOX news garbage and hate radio such as Rush Limbaugh, rather than David Suzuki, who is vilified by these scientifically illiterate types. Thanks to our corporate overlords, we’re losing hospitals in outlying areas, and the right wingers say, “just move”. As per the “monstrosities”, I’ve stood directly beneath an industrial turbine, and the most noise it made was a pleasant whisper. Fossil fuel pollution kills,as does nuclear radiation (Japan), alternate energies do not kill. If I had a farm, I’d gladly collect the $50,000 or whatever it is, and be happy. I grew up on a farm, and there were rusting, buzzing hydro towers near the small vineyard, and I certainly would have preferred turbines.
Further… there’s plenty of anecdotal “evidence” out there but there is no valid scientific evidence attributing wind turbines to adverse health effects (unlike fossil fuels, nuclear etc.). Apparently, there is not a legitimate study that attributes lower real estate values to wind turbines either.
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Oil and gas pay a lot of money back, billions to be exact. Or haven’t you noticed that most of the price of gas is taxes? And how exactly does so-called green energy pay anything back? It doesn’t – it just sucks government subsidies. Fortunately the debate is academic; governments no longer have the money for this fantasy, although dalton is prepared to bankrupt ontario before he admits it.
BTW, do you think you’re going to charge your electric car with power for turbines? Not even close. We’ll be be back to nuclear before you catch your breath.
It’s monstrous people would refer to industrial wind turbines as ‘green” – yo are industrializing the rural world. What’s green about covering the landscape with 300 foot metal towers with spinning metal blades which shred wildlife and blight the natural landscape?
Gang green should catch up and do a little research. Ever hear of James Lovelock? He practically invented environmental consciousness and he has lately changed his mind and is harsh on the idea of wind turbines and their effects.
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Well done Neil S. – and the information you gave is only the tip of an iceberge. Don’t let the hot air of the uninformed, idealist blow you away. There are many broad minded people like Greg out there with something to contribute.
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It seems strange that the more i try to find out about wind turbines, the more it’s obvious it’s not a long turn energy solution, yet people are supporting it so strongly. All wind energy projects are subsidized, there’s health impacts in all turbine farms, there’s a negative impact on property values and it’s doesn’t fit with “county” landscape. I haven’t been able to find a person who lives near a turbine that supports them but I have talked to people who supported wind energy until a turbine farm was put in near them and after living near one they’ve joined the opposition. European wind farms are moving to smaller groups of turbines to limit the human issues and because it gave them the best returns. I haven’t seen any studies on the six hundred foot giants being put in here and I don’t thing people understand. All people are asking is do your home work before you assume we’re against “green energy”. Lack of information and understanding is going to cause us to make a big mistake.
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If wind turbines are so wonderful why are the people who are bought out by the wind companies as their homes are no longer liveable forced to sign a gag order??/ These people could tell you why turbines are poison but they have been forced into a situation whereby they stand to lose everything..What would you do? Do you know some farmers are paid $50,000.00 per year per turbine…who would refuse? The Green energy Act has taken away our right to have a say in our own regions. Ask yourself why are these draconian methods needed?? Do you know that the turbine companies have first call to supply energy at huge prices, when we have cheaper energy available and is regularly dumped..Your hydro bills are only going to get bigger…Do you know how many birds are killed by turbines? Yes we kill birds in many ways, adding to the kill rate doesn’t make it right. Some of these creatures eg: the American Eagle are protected..protected from what?? Boys throwing stones at them, they are being killed and we will never know the real numbers… I would respectfully ask if you wish to comment on turbines, due some research, not from the turbine companies. They will tell you that the value of your home will increase if you live near a turbine. The real estate board will tell you that your house will decrease in value by 30 – 40 percent if you live within a three mile radius of a turbine. People..wake up..we are being scammed
Loretta Routsky.
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The perception isn’t the reality here in Canada. In the province of Ontario and elsewhere the wind industry IS the fossil fuel industry. Suncor, Epcor, TransAlta and Enbridge are all big players in the Ontario wind industry, and they are all involved in either tar sands production, coal generated electricity or natural gas and oil pipelines. Every subsidised dollar of profit that these corporations recieve from wind energy is just another dollar to put towards intensive capital expenditures for fossil fuel extraction. Wind energy is just a bonus revenue stream for these fossil fuel corporations, courtesy of the suckers of Ontario. How does subsisising these corporations help the environment?
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I have a problem figuring out why so many of you think that wind energy is the best thing that ever happened to the province. These folks seem to think that all our problems will be solved my simply installating mega industrial wind turbines all over the rural landscape of Ontario. Do these people not realize that wind and solar power only work when the sun and wind are available. Sure we can “harness the wind” but there is not always a wind available to “harness”. And, when there is no wind, we must rely on the reliable sorces of power: hydro electric, nuclear or coal which can be regulated by supply and demand. 65% of our power is created by the hydro and nuclear, which have clean emissions, and all three make power at a fraction of the cost of “green energy”.
For those people who think that removing coal generating power from the grid will take care of all our dirty emissions, they should consider where most of our dirty emissions come from: our airplanes, vehicles and industries, (not from the few coal generating plants)
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Also these dirty emmisions will be produced because of the increased use of Greenhouse creating Natural Gas that we have to burn in these expensive CO-GENS that we have to build to provide flexability in our system so we can use wind . 1 turbine requires 300 tons of steel to be mined , transferedto be smelted , to be fabricated and finally erected so we can MAYBE generate a miniscule amount of power hopefully when we need it or we have to sell it at a loss to other jurisdictions. Any one who has worked in mining. transportation , and or steel making knows the amount of fuel and resources that goes into making 300 tons of steel . Multiply that by the number of these turbines and how much pollution are you creating as opposed to the so called clean energy that you are creating! AS I said before wind turbines could be used but not hooked up to our electrical grid. They should be placed in willing jurisdictions and use the power they create to produce HYDROGEN GAS. This can be stored and used when needed as well it can be transferred by existing pipeline infrastructure. It can be used to generate truly clean electricity or used in our cars where the tailpipe exhaust would be only water!!
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Ok everyone. Take a seat and relax. The most important reason to embrace alternate energy development, including wind, is this. HUMAN-CAUSED GLOBAL WARMING. We have no choice. Ezra and Rush might say otherwise,and I know they’re persuasive, but we must transition NOW. There’s no time to lose. Already, human-caused global warming (AGW) is costing billions in North America: droughts, extreme weather etc. It’s a threat to the world economy, and to our very own survival. These are not platitudes or hyperbole.
All energy production is subsidized. It doesn’t matter if corrupt petro companies ensconced in tax havens sponsor alternate energy developments. It must be done now. There’s no time to waste.
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Yes, Mark we have probably contributed to global warming, but have you wondered why Greenland is called “Greenland?”..the earth has gone through many cycles, we may be entering one of them again. Putting up wind turbines is not going to change Mother Natures mind one little bit. Carbon has become such a dirty word “pardon the pun” but we are composed of carbon among other things…Let’s not be pushed into a big mistake re wind turbines, they really don’t produce and the money just goes down into a big sinkhole…..there must be a better way..
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This whole issues smacks of COMRADE McGuinty’s outlook that he can stomp on the rights of anyone with no regard for their rights.
Consider the GREENBELT. This was an example of virtual land expropriation with NO compensation to those landowners that were affected. Talk about midevil style government style.
Now we have these wind farms being shoved down our throats when: a) the jury is still out on all the science and impact on TAX PAYING, LAW ABIDING (for now) CITIZENS and b) non-obtrusive off-shore options are not being considered.
Talk about midevil style government style.
The issue should NOT be whether green non-renewable energy is good or bad. I think we can all agree that it is a good thing. It is the trampling of rights by COMRADE McGuinty and his party of dictators that should be at the forefront of this discussion.
Here’s hoping that perhaps during the next election, if COMRADE McGuinty is hurting for votes he will shelve the idea, pay millions to the wind farm companies for breach of contract so that he won’t lose the votes of those who oppose and this matter will all but go away. Who hasn’t seen that played out before (Mississauga …. Power Plant…. $180M). Wish I didn’t have to but, just sayin….
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As unlikely as it it may seem, even I agree with Peter Kormos when he says wind and solar is as scam.
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For those that have chimed in here that are on unfamiliar with what wind turbines and what they are actually capable of, I’d ask that you use your critical thinking caps and pay close attention to what is going on around you. It would be best if you gathered your information from the extensive and well documented operational history of large scale industrial wind turbines around the world by the end users and not from the entities that stand to profit from building and installing them and collecting the FIT money.
Unfortunately, you are all only being told only what the wind proponents what you to know…and nothing more. The truth is unfortunately far removed from what you have been told. You have been told that they generate clean electricity. Unfortunately, they do not. Since they typically generate on average 10 – 22% of their rated output with horrendously irratic and inconsistent delivery, they cannot and will not ever be relied upon to replace basload power generation. You have been told wind turbines will allow the closure of coal plants. They will not. We are set to build several new load following and peak demand natural gas plants that are horribly inefficient to replace the horribly inaccurate label of “dirty coal”. As a result, and as a whole, turbine output is unmanagable so as to contribute any meaningful amount of electricity to the grid. It is instead listed as a “surplus” andsimply not used (because it isn’t usable) or given away since integrating wind electricity is significantly more trouble than it is worth by every measure. That said, please do not take my word for it. Look and research for yourself. 1200 wind turbines in Ontario and they are contributing less than one half of one percent to the entire Ontario grid. And on top of that, the wind power is frequently generated when it is not actually even usable. Awesome. Ontario power generation is already 75% carbon nuetral – without turbines that cannot contribute to baseload power generation. Other provinces and countries should be so lucky.
My favourite example that illustrates just how severe the problem will be for Ontario if we continue down the ignorant and reckless wind path is Denmark. And the UK is set to not be that far behind…
In 30 years the population of Denmark has grown by 10% while the increase in wind power has gone up by 1400%. During this time not 1 fossil fuel generation plant has been closed and Denmarks CO2 footprint is virtually unchanged. After adjusting for population size and climate, Denmarks CO2 emissions are are no better than Canadas.
The UK currently has 5.7 GW of wind turbines installed. Last year those wind turbines contributed only 21 % of their rated capacity to the grid. There were times in the last 3 winters when high pressure systems settled over the country and there was no wind. During this time. the Bureau of Energy and Climate Change acknowledged the amount of power being generated by all the turbines in the country was so low, it couldn’t be metered.
The Brits are now obligated to spend 162 billion dollars on more turbines to bring them up to EU requirements for wind generated power, and they also have to spend 16 billion dollars for new gas powered generators to act as back up for these turbines. Back ups that are required to be on spinning reserve ( powered and burning gas but not producing electricity )
This is madness. It is bankrupting the Brits and it will bankrupt Ontario.
Denmarks price for electricity is the highest in the world. The price for electricity in britain went up 7% last year, 17% this year and the Bureau of Energy and Climate Change is calling for price increases of another 50% over the next 6 years, causing the term ” the fuel poor ” to be coined.
Note that Denmark now buys power generated by traditional means at a massive premium from neighboring EU countries since its own power grid has been so poorly managed with a misguided belief that wind power could be relied upon. It is troubling how ignorant those in power could possibly be. And look it usin Ontario – speeding down the same dead end road – the sheeple being fed a lie while those in power appear to actually believe their own rhetoric that our results with wind power will somehow be different. I find the level of ignorance with this scam alarming.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_Denmark
Wind industry in Denmark is flourishing. Interesting that they’re finding solutions to to intermittency by storing energy in electric vehicle batteries etc. Sounds ingenious. Also of note is that the ubiquitous petro lobby tried to thwart progress there as well. Do these petro companies not have a conscience?
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Here’s an interesting report from Mike Schreiner
http://www.cleanairalliance.org/price_nr
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Wikipedia doesn’t do any research and Clean Air Alliance gets it information from the wind energy companies. Do you have any link to independent and unbiased research? That aside, how does anyone think it’s okay to put 60 story structures in rural Ontario? People moved there to get away from that or doesn’t this minority matter? Health problems, property value decrease add to the negatives. Even though it would destroy everything I’ve worked for, I’ve decided to stay and accept the out come. All I ask is that the truth comes out and we don’t let government use us for their own gain. There talking advantage of people who honestly care about the environment and it terrible.
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Regarding Denmark – no coal powered plants have been closed and while it is reported that Denmark generates as much as 24% of its electricity using wind it is far less as far as consumption because intermittent energy cannot meet demand. That is the problem, no adequate storage for electricity as batteries are inefficient and expensive other and super capacitors are still years away.
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Someone mentioned the wind farms out west but Ontario isn`t building true wind farms. This is more a haphazard scattering of the turbines throughout rural communities and cottage areas. People likely would not mind so much if there was a strategic plan involved with locating them. Yes, as someone said earlier, we have lots of land as Australia does but check out the difference in the setback limits that Australia employs vs. Ontario. Much of the concern could be mitigated if our setback limits were increased.
I am not convinced that there are health impacts but you can`t blame people for people for being suspicious. The gag orders caused enough suspicion but to make matters worse, Ontario`s Chief Medical Officer had to be ordered by the courts to give testimony in the Drennan case. Ontarians want to believe that our health is being looked after Dr. King`s fight to avoid giving testimony makes you wonder what our government is keeping from us.
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http://www.davidsuzuki.org/blogs/science-matters/2011/07/when-it-comes-to-health-wind-power-blows-away-the-alternative/
Health effects of wind power
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And all the while we in Ontario generate more electricity than we need and sell it at a discount to Quebec, Michigan and New York or give it away all together.
Approximately 70% of wind generation occurs during the evening hours which are non-peak. Considering that wind farm operators are getting 50+ cents per KHW (solar 80+ cents) and we are giving that energy away should hopefully raise some eyebrows in this group unless of course you don’t pay taxes or pay for electricity yourself.
This is another example of COMRADE McGuinty’s misguided attempt to pander to green groups at the expense of the taxpayer. Unfortunately, the jury will not be able to form a conclusion before this project is shoved down our throats and completed, before the science and a valid business case has been determined/made.
Shame on you proponents of wind technology for jumping on this bandwagon and encouraging our government, if thats what you want to call it, to proceed with this irresponsible approach to this initiative. You are a big part of the problem.
Again I am not saying that I am against green energy. I just want it done right. I am tired of my hard-earned tax dollars being wasted on frivalous, ill concieved projects. At the end of the day, an ill concieved approach will negate any good that could have possibly come out of this type of initiative despite its’ merits. Again sad I have to say this, but just sayin……
A Note from NAL – This is one tme, I need to intervene to say that all sides on the wind farm issue only want to use the “facts” that support their position. Yes, there are times when Ontario sells energy to New York and other jurisdictions when we have a surplus, but there have also been plenty of times when we have bought energy from the northeastern United States when our demand for energy in Ontario exceeded the supply. Too often that energy has come from the Ohio valley where they burn dirty coal to create energy, and we in southern Ontario are also the recipients of the smog that drifts across Lake Erie and compromises the respiratory health of Ontarians. Can’t we have a debate on the energy issue that takes into account all of the facts and not just those certain interests cherry pick to support their position? – NAL publisher Doug Draper
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Mark, David Suzuki has gotten himself into politics and his comments should be read as coming from the Liberal party.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/04/25/david-suzuki-foundation/
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@ NAL Publisher Doug Draper:
Yes, Doug, that sounds like a worthy debate. Can anyone demonstrate how a wind turbine reduces CO2 emissions? Since the primary plan to allow turbines to do anything at all is to allow them to be “backed up” by new compact natural gas plants in the load following and peak demand flavour, what is the net effect of a wind turbine besides making some corpoarations very rich through the FIT program?
Note that the load following power plants run wide open and consume a full load of fuel and generate full power emissions. To be remotely efficient, they use combined cycle technology that cannot simply be throttled up and down to vary their output. Only the actual output itself is variable – the gas turbines run a full steam regardless of output. And that is the efficient way to do it. The horribly inefficient way to do it is to use a simple cycle peak demand gas turbine that can be fired up in about 15-20 mins. They are small, cheap, around 50% efficient and are the worst polluters. Remember: This is the master plan for making wind power work. Even the much more efficient and cleaner load following natural gas power plants make absolutely no sense here. They will vary their output to match wind output – all the while running at full power regardless of output. This is hardly the definition of “backing up” wind power. The analogy of thinking you are being green by riding your bicycle to work while having your car follow you when you get tired of pedaling applies here. Everyone really needs to pay attention to this. This is the .gov’s plan. It is publicly available information. We are attempting to replace a portion of our carbon neutral baseload power generation with the “alternative energy mix” I listed above. That’s your mix – new non baseload natural gas power that will allow wind turbines to be “viable”. And we are paying a massive and staggering premium to do it with no net ROI to the people of Ontario. Does anyone think it is only a coincidence that big players in natural gas distrubution in Ontario like Enbridge are investing in wind turbines? It’s a win/win for them: Invest in wind and collect massive FIT subsidies that directly fuel the need for numerous new massive natural gas projects. How about Suncor? Greenies complain about big oil companies and their subsidies. What oil subsidies, I have no idea. Nobody seems to know what those are when I ask. Well, it’s big oil that is coming after our lucrative FIT subsidies. Come on people, pay attention. This has nothing to do with doing what is good for the environment. the only thing green here is the money.
I’d also suggest that we all look at the environmental impact beyond CO2 emissions. Lets look at power density. Wind turbines require massive tracts of what oftens ends up being rare and sought after high quality farm land. They require massive amounts of raw materials to be constructed and installed. It has even been suggested that the total amount of energy consumed by a wind turbine from design to end-of-life may even exceed the amount of power it will ever generate. Nevermind the fact that it never makes usable power in the first place. I realize that it is heresay and a difficult notion to substatiate but at the very least is some very interesting food for thought. They drive wild life away. They are proven to be harmful to humans all around the world. The only entities that will not admit that publicly are the ones that profit from it. Everyone else seems to get it. Strange. On one side they say they are safe for humans and on the other, they are buying out homes of those that are suffering from the turbines being too close, slapping those that are bought out with a gag order while continuing to say they perfectly safe. Nice.
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Bang on Cheyne you see it for what it is . It has been an easy sell (Clean Wind Power) All the tilley hats in Toronto see clear skys , clean air , and endless clean power because in Canada we have nothing but free wind and oodles of empty land! It is up to people like you and most of the people on this thread to get the word out to the city folk. Clean energy for sure !— But lets not waste precious tax dollars and find ourselves worse off! There is a company in newfie that does hydrogen gas production plants from waste gases that could use dedicated wind turbines to generate the needed electricitry to produce this gas . I am sure know that when this gas is burned the end product is H2O.
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This is a direct response to Doug’s comments re: Cherry Picking.
Based on forecasts delivered by IESO we will be exporting 2GW s(GIGAWATT) daily for the foreseeable future. I am fairly certain your statements re: Ontario importing electricity are wrong. However if we do, IESO clearly reports that there is a surplus of broadband electricity available during a period which should see higher than normal consumption.
My comment re: giving and/o paying other jurisdictions to take our surplus energy at the expense of the Ontario taxpayer to the tune of billions of dollars stands.
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Here is a response about surplus. We should aim to get rid of nuclear, because it is dangerous (Japan meltdown), because it is ridiculously expensive, even prohibitively expensive (even G.E says so),and because alternative energies have come a long way technically. The only way to get this done is to be more proactive in alternate energies, so that they can replace at least some of the nuclear. The ON Green Party would aim to get excess hydro from Quebec, ramp up alternatives, and save by mothballing some nuclear. (This plan would save over one billion dollars)The info. can be found on the Mike Schreiner link that I left.
I would like a clarification, however. Am I correct that it is up to the landowner if he/she wants a turbine on his/her property?
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Wow, great article. I keep seeing these windmills traveling up the Welland Canal, Can’t wait to see them operating somewhere.
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Plenty of misinformation out there …
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